Questions about multiple servers

[g51]

Hi.

1. How can i see on what servers a post exists (or at least its headers)?
2. Is there a way to remove all posts of a group that exist in a deleted server? Of course if it exists in more than one servers, i would expect the reference to that server to be deleted but the post to remain with reference to the other server(s).

In general, i would expect CTRL+I (properties window) to be shown even in files in the wish-list (which it currently doesn't) and in there, show the servers in which the selected post exists.

[Quade]

1 - All the headers from all the servers get lumped into a single header database per group so there's no way to know where the headers came from.

2 - Just because a server does't deliver headers, this doesn't mean it can't deliver posts for download. Look at Astra, they seem to have dumped all headers for a set of groups but you can still download the files using our search engine.

3 - Since they all get mixed together, there's no way to extract a specific server's headers. Typically all servers have the same headers. Even if they don't, #2 applies.

You'd have to enable each server in sequence then download headers from each then purge the group between runs to see what headers are from what server. Because of #2, I'm not sure there's much point to it. Ctrl-I won't tell you per server information because of #1. No news reader has to track what header belongs to what server because each post has a globally unique identifier so, what server or group a post comes from has no impact on being able to download the post.

You can test the download with the test right click. Then look at the logs to see which servers don't have the post.

[g51]

1 - All the headers from all the servers get lumped into a single header database per group so there's no way to know where the headers came from.

Hey Quade, thanks for the explanation.

Here's the case: I have recently changed providers (so, servers) and in a pretty large group, since not all headers have been downloaded from the new server yet, i don't know if they are available for downloading. The group is pretty large and a large percentage of the headers has been downloaded, so purging the group and re-downloading all headers would be undesirable at this point.

In NB, i did think that all messages would be stored in one header database but i also though there would be a separate Post/Server table in the database, containing info like the post number and the server this header exists. That's why i asked how to delete them.

Do you think such extra info would be too much/have no real meaning for NB? If a user has several servers active, how does NB handle things? Always gets posts from the server with the highest priority? Try to get a message and if it doesn't exist in that server, try the next one?

[itimpi]

In NB, i did think that all messages would be stored in one header database but i also though there would be a separate Post/Server table in the database, containing info like the post number and the server this header exists. That's why i asked how to delete them.

NB retrieves post by message-Id which is the same on all servers that contain the post, so it does not need to store any server/post type information. Message-Id is also the way that posts are identified in nzb files.

Do you think such extra info would be too much/have no real meaning for NB? If a user has several servers active, how does NB handle things? Always gets posts from the server with the highest priority? Try to get a message and if it doesn't exist in that server, try the next one?

Newsbin always starts with the highest priority server (s). If it gets an error return indicating that the server does not contain the post (typically a 430 error) then it looks for other servers at the same priority level for the post. If there are no further servers at the current priority level then NB tries the next priority server that might contain the post.

[Quade]

Here's the case: I have recently changed providers (so, servers) and in a pretty large group, since not all headers have been downloaded from the new server yet, i don't know if they are available for downloading. The group is pretty large and a large percentage of the headers has been downloaded, so purging the group and re-downloading all headers would be undesirable at this point.

In this situation, I'd right click all the groups, select "Post Storage/Use Download Age" . Then in the main options set a download age to just before you switched over. Then download headers normally. It should then download X days worth of headers from the new server to get everything lined up and set the new server up to just supplement the existing headers.

[g51]

Hey, thanks for the explanations and tips, itimpi and Quade.

Unfortunately, things have become more complicated. I was forced to re-subscribe to my old provider (in parallel to the new one) either because the new one does not have as good retention as they advertise (in certain groups at least) or because there are many incompletes. In any case, NB does not help me at all to find out what's going on.

I guess my case is the exception and not the rule. I do believe though that storing the server information and having a way to filter headers in search results by server, could prove to be helpful in some cases. I'm not sure though of the impact this would have on the size of NB datafiles and on its speed.

Anyway, just some thoughts...

P.S.: I would also find helpful to have a column in Groups tab to display the total group headers and not only the new ones.

[Quade]

Unfortunately, things have become more complicated. I was forced to re-subscribe to my old provider (in parallel to the new one) either because the new one does not have as good retention as they advertise (in certain groups at least) or because there are many incompletes. In any case, NB does not help me at all to find out what's going on.

If you simply did what I suggested in the post above yours, there'd be no complication. At worst you'd re-download "Download Age" worth of headers from 2 servers instead of one.

If you think of the server as a car and the headers as a map, it doesn't matter what brand of car you're driving. The map stays the same. You don't need to download headers from a server to use the server. As long as you have headers from one server they can be used against all the servers in the server list. The map remains the same no matter how many different cars you drive.

Purging the headers is typically the worst thing you can do. Worst from a massive time and bandwidth waste.

[g51]

If you think of the server as a car and the headers as a map, it doesn't matter what brand of car you're driving. The map stays the same.

Yup, i get that. The problem is that there's no way for me to evaluate the cars and decide which is better and in what areas. I do enjoy the ride, but now i have two cars to do that!

[Quade]

Yup, i get that. The problem is that there's no way for me to evaluate the cars and decide which is better and in what areas. I do enjoy the ride, but now i have two cars to do that

You're looking at the wrong end of this. The headers are mostly all the same. The quality of the server is determined by the posts on the server you try to download. You could have a perfect header server, like Giganews, who can't deliver posts for most of the headers they gave you. The map is fine in this case but, your car is broken so you can't get to the destination.

[g51]

You could have a perfect header server, like Giganews, who can't deliver posts for most of the headers they gave you. The map is fine in this case but, your car is broken so you can't get to the destination.

Hmmm. Good point. So i guess it's a combination of trial and error and googling for provider comparisons and other people's opinions.

OK, thanks Quade.

[Quade]

I just watch for 430 errors on the logs. The more 430 errors, the worse the server.

[g51]

I just watch for 430 errors on the logs. The more 430 errors, the worse the server.

Nice tip. Thanks.