6.62 B: 4358 Odd Behaviour

[Tarkus]

Ever since upgrading to 6.62 I have noticed two ever increasing issues. First after downloading a large RAR part, 1Gb, NB stops downloading and seemingly puts all its resources into just saving the file and then after the file is complete it returns to downloading. Second it appears that the groups are constantly trying to update and as a result you see the blue group bar constantly and slowly moving. I would not really have an issue if the group completed but the program becomes incredibly slow, ie: if I try to click on two or three different downloads the mouse cannot select until after a few seconds and the same lag occurs if I type in data into the search box.

CPU and Memory usage for NB is quite small, (4% and 300 MB), and no other program is affected.

Anyone else getting symptoms like this?

I am wondering if I should delete the groups and just do a new rebuild?

[Quade]

First after downloading a large RAR part, 1Gb,

I mean, it's writing out a 1 gig file as fast as it can. If it's not all in RAM it has to both read and write from disk at the same time. I don't consider this that unusual. That said, the redesign I'm working on might still be able to download at the same time. I wouldn't expect full speed when it's writing to disk as fast as it can. What kinda disk is this?

Second it appears that the groups are constantly trying to update and as a result you see the blue group bar constantly and slowly moving.

What does the number down next to "Cache" show. The one in parens? "Cache X/Y (NN)". I mean the NN part. This represents blocks of headers Newsbin is still importing. What I think you're reporting is that these blocks are getting processed and added to the groups listing periodically. This and the 1G file writing at the same time is probably bottlenecking on your disks.

[Tarkus]

First after downloading a large RAR part, 1Gb,

I mean, it's writing out a 1 gig file as fast as it can. If it's not all in RAM it has to both read and write from disk at the same time. I don't consider this that unusual. That said, the redesign I'm working on might still be able to download at the same time. I wouldn't expect full speed when it's writing to disk as fast as it can. What kinda disk is this?

Second it appears that the groups are constantly trying to update and as a result you see the blue group bar constantly and slowly moving.

What does the number down next to "Cache" show. The one in parens? "Cache X/Y (NN)". I mean the NN part. This represents blocks of headers Newsbin is still importing. What I think you're reporting is that these blocks are getting processed and added to the groups listing periodically. This and the 1G file writing at the same time is probably bottlenecking on your disks.

I get the 1 GB write thing. I was merely pointing out that the write time is longer and that the download speed reduced to zero. Maybe it only went down to zero but I may not have noticed it if the write time was faster.

The cache is as follows: 200/200 (0) - 200/200 (1) when I was downloading headers from a fairly large group.

[Quade]

I get the 1 GB write thing. I was merely pointing out that the write time is longer and that the download speed reduced to zero. Maybe it only went down to zero but I may not have noticed it if the write time was faster.

Got it. Thanks. I was working on getting the updated engine working with the Newsbin GUI yesterday. I'll probably be working on it more today.

[Tarkus]

I get the 1 GB write thing. I was merely pointing out that the write time is longer and that the download speed reduced to zero. Maybe it only went down to zero but I may not have noticed it if the write time was faster.

Got it. Thanks. I was working on getting the updated engine working with the Newsbin GUI yesterday. I'll probably be working on it more today.

You asked about the cache? Is the 200/200 (0) within standard?

[Quade]

Yeah, 200/200 is the default. It actually means Newsbin isn't importing any headers and that it's currently got all cache blocks ready for download.

There's only one thing writing to disk. That's an intentional design so when it's assembling these large files, your cache count probably goes to zero and it stalls waiting for the writer to finish. The re-design breaks this connection and allows the download to continue independent of the file assembling/repair/unrar. Then how fast it downloads while assembling will be completely dependent on how fast your disk drives are.

[Tarkus]

Yeah, 200/200 is the default. It actually means Newsbin isn't importing any headers and that it's currently got all cache blocks ready for download.

There's only one thing writing to disk. That's an intentional design so when it's assembling these large files, your cache count probably goes to zero and it stalls waiting for the writer to finish. The re-design breaks this connection and allows the download to continue independent of the file assembling/repair/unrar. Then how fast it downloads while assembling will be completely dependent on how fast your disk drives are.

I've been doing some more testing and noticed that when NB is loaded that the disk is running continually even if NB is not actively performing a task. Is there some background process that could be responsible?

[Quade]

It depends on how you have it set. If you have it set to scan for NZB's, then every 10 second or so it'll scan the folders you told it to watch. It's also checking the disks periodically for free disk space. If you're a person who downloads headers, any headers waiting to get processed will cause Newsbin to hit the disks to.

I watch Newsbin with "Procmon" all the time and that's the only periodic disk IO I see. I'm not seeing any continuous disk IO when it's just sitting there idling.

One thing people often do is set Newsbin to "NZB watch" large and busy folders. If you do that, it might take awhile before it settles down and decids it's already look at the files in the folder at least once.

[Tarkus]

It depends on how you have it set. If you have it set to scan for NZB's, then every 10 second or so it'll scan the folders you told it to watch. It's also checking the disks periodically for free disk space. If you're a person who downloads headers, any headers waiting to get processed will cause Newsbin to hit the disks to.

I watch Newsbin with "Procmon" all the time and that's the only periodic disk IO I see. I'm not seeing any continuous disk IO when it's just sitting there idling.

One thing people often do is set Newsbin to "NZB watch" large and busy folders. If you do that, it might take awhile before it settles down and decids it's already look at the files in the folder at least once.

I was checking disk performance with a couple of utilities and in the idle state NB wasn't using anything noticeable in terms of CPU or Disk but the Disk light was in a constant state of on. That is why I was wondering about the potential background process.

I only use NZBs as one offs so they are executed and then deleted after download.

I do download headers, (terribly inefficient system where I download group headers from Agent and then identify the downloads I want and then use NB to download the actual binary), but unless I "Get New Headers" shouldn't NB process the headers in the selected group(s) and then done?

I was thinking that the only change I have made in the last while was to upgrade to the Professional version of Zone Alarm but a program like that should halt NB not cause it to to perform some task continuously, (also ZA is not running any increased CPU/Mem during the running of NB).

It just seems odd that this is the only program that seemingly can't "Finish" and just go to idle?

I mean we both know that this all might just go away in the next release and we'll never know what the cause was. I seem to have been particularly lucky ever since 5 and every upgrade since so maybe it was just my turn?

Also quick question for you. If I delete a Poster from a group it says "Permanently Delete etc" but next time I go to that group the user is still there and I again have to "Delete All Posts...". Not important but just wondering if this is normal.

[Quade]

I mean we both know that this all might just go away in the next release and we'll never know what the cause was. I seem to have been particularly lucky ever since 5 and every upgrade since so maybe it was just my turn?

I'd suggest you use procmon and see what it's doing.

[Tarkus]

It depends on how you have it set. If you have it set to scan for NZB's, then every 10 second or so it'll scan the folders you told it to watch. It's also checking the disks periodically for free disk space. If you're a person who downloads headers, any headers waiting to get processed will cause Newsbin to hit the disks to.

I watch Newsbin with "Procmon" all the time and that's the only periodic disk IO I see. I'm not seeing any continuous disk IO when it's just sitting there idling.

One thing people often do is set Newsbin to "NZB watch" large and busy folders. If you do that, it might take awhile before it settles down and decids it's already look at the files in the folder at least once.

I'll give a go and report if I find anything odd.

Thanks.

[Tarkus]

I mean we both know that this all might just go away in the next release and we'll never know what the cause was. I seem to have been particularly lucky ever since 5 and every upgrade since so maybe it was just my turn?

I'd suggest you use procmon and see what it's doing.

I had forgotten just how much data Procmon creates. What specific filters are you using on the NB64.exe process?

[Quade]

I just added a filter to only show Newsbin's activity. That blocked all the other programs out.

[Tarkus]

I just added a filter to only show Newsbin's activity. That blocked all the other programs out.

If NB is idle what are you seeing in ProMon?

I am seeing a repeated action about every 3 seconds where it goes through a synchronization.

Doesn't appear to be particularly intensive though but should it not just go to idle?

[Quade]

Doesn't appear to be particularly intensive though but should it not just go to idle?

That's not how it's designed. Certain things run independent of downloading. Like free disk checking and data folder cleanup.

All I see it doing is checking my NZB Autoload folder, free disk space and occasionally looking to see if anything needs to be deleted from the data folder.

None of what it's doing should prevent your PC from putting itself to sleep.

[Tarkus]

Doesn't appear to be particularly intensive though but should it not just go to idle?

That's not how it's designed. Certain things run independent of downloading. Like free disk checking and data folder cleanup.

All I see it doing is checking my NZB Autoload folder, free disk space and occasionally looking to see if anything needs to be deleted from the data folder.

None of what it's doing should prevent your PC from putting itself to sleep.

That's what I figured. The activities I noticed on ProMon were minimal and certainly not of any magnitude to have any impact on the system. I just loaded up a group and then when I tried to select specific downloads each time the system stalled for a maybe a second and then I could click and highlight a download. Doesn't seem to be any reason why only this program is behaving in this manner.

I'll keep plugging away at it.

[Quade]

I just loaded up a group and then when I tried to select specific downloads each time the system stalled for a maybe a second and then I could click and highlight a download. Doesn't seem to be any reason why only this program is behaving in this manner.

You probably want to tell your security software to leave Newsbin and the data folder alone.

You're not using USB drives are you? I've seen USB drive stagger a PC thought it's pretty rare.

What's the chance your drives are spinning down? My download drive spins down and when it does, Newsbin will stall till it gets spinning again.

[Tarkus]

Just a follow-up, sorry for the delay but this has been on my 'to do' list.

A few days after your last post I more or less resigned myself to waiting to see if a new release would resolve the issue and then the latest batch of Windows 8.1 updates came through and upon that completion Newsbin returned to normal performance.

No idea why and I can't imagine what the connection was but the problem is gone so let us worry about more important issues.

Thanks for your assistance.