Newsbin Version 6 Status - Nov 1, 2010

[dexter]

Version 6 is well into Alpha testing with a small group of brave Newsbin users through our IRC channel. It is currently fully functional but has some cleanup work and a couple more features before we will be ready to release as a public beta.

Here's a small preview of what you can expect:

• Re-designed GUI with dockable menu bar and tabs.
• GUI supports selection of different themes.
• Ability to assign custom shortcuts.
• Full unicode support.
• Merged the AutoPAR tab with the Download list.
• Improved autopar processing to handle a higher percentage of rar/par sets.
• Items in Download list are collapsed and can be expanded to see progress of individual files in a rar/par set.
• Improved performance of download/repair/unrar process (clocked at close to 1gbps with SSD drives running a local server)

Things we want to do before beta:

• Re-design how headers are stored and loaded to allow significantly faster load times
• Re-design speed limit function to handle >20mpbs limit.
• Find some pretty icons to go with the new GUI.

We don't have a target for a release date but I think it's safe to say we'll start the public beta before the end of the year.

[mankind99uk]

Any chance of some screen shots?

[richy99]

at present it isnt really worth screenies as it is changing how it looks on a build by build basis, ill chuck some up later maybe

[larinath]

Eeesh, the par processing has me salivating. I can't wait to get my grubby hands on this beta.

[syshog]

I don't use the Auto par function at all, I prefer to handle pars myself. I hope there will still be an option to disable autopar, I'd like to not even use it at all. My biggest compliant with autopar is that when the files are extracted they are just put in the root group folder when I like to use folders for each thing i grab off the net. Kinda of like the context menu to extract to the folder of the rar name and i like to put the nfos in that same folder.

edit: I would like to be able to continue downloading and update headers without having to keep all of newsbin in memory.

[Semel]

Thats good news.

I still urge you to reduce auto update groups limit from 1 hour which is ridiculous(ver 5.58) to 1-5 minutes minimum.
This one

It is really important for some people to have specific groups updated automatically often.
I closely monitor them so that i can be aware of new releases in time and upload them to other sites. Quite often i have watch filters set that allow autodownloading too thus getting new stuff right in time. without manually clicking update button allowing me to work on other things

its only the small ammount of headers get downloaded every 1(5) min(since its often) besides the load on NNTP providers side is minimum compared to usual downloads(DVDs,games,blurays, hundreds and hundreds Gigs of information each day) so i dont see how getting a small ammount of compressed headers(being already connected to nntp provider) makes its life harder

I can press as monkey update button every 1 min or even less, every 30 seconds,or i can let newsbin pro do the job right without "harming" anyone.
1(5) min is a reasonable interval.

Please reconsider your policy about this one. There are no solid justifications whatsoever against it.
As of now im forced to use another newsreader that can do it btu i would prefer newsbin pro.
thanx

[Kaigi]

I agree with Semel: I'd add a bunch of stuff to my filters list if the auto-updating was reduced to 1-5 mins, but I suspect the original intent was to lower CPU and internet-use cycle times?

The stuff sounds great. I presume NZBs will still be able to have individual parts selectable for forced RE-download? Why I ask is this: Oddly enough I've found a few times that an NZB made by one site may be flawed and render a RAR sequence unrepairable by PARs, but using an NZB from another site for the EXACT same post produces a PAR-repairable set of incomplete RARs [i.e. JUST enough more pieces for the PARs to do the rest]. When that has happened, I just select the pieces with the most missing out of them and force-redownload them manually.

Will the "Items in Download list are collapsed and can be expanded to see progress of individual files in a rar/par set" be selectable GLOBALLY? Like it is for NZBs, where the overall option can be changed for everything in the pane with a select/unselect of the 'Compact View' box. That would be nice, because when I'm 'in the room' I like to automatically know exactly how close whatever is there is to finishing, while I couldn't care less when I'm not here. [And I realize that I could click each individually to expand it, but I might opt to just leave it for simplicities' sake.]


[Probably a bit late to ask: but any possibility of a 'selected item' time to finish? The global one in the program's bottom information tray is nice, but for some things I'd like to know how long it'll be before that one item finishes. If the 'remaining time' could have an adjunct for 'remaining time for selected item(s)', that would be great!]

[peacs]

I agree with "syshog"

I never use the autopar and hope that it will still be possible to disable it. Downloads are to separate folders/drives depending on what I am downloading.

[Quade]

Well, if you add them compacted, they download compacted. You can disable decode and leave repair working or disable both. Currently you can't disable download list compaction but, I imagine I could add that easily enough. The scratch list is still there but, it's not used for anything during download. It's just storage now.

Your reasons seem odd to me. Why not just download them to the folder you want and let autopar decode them in place?

I'm not changing the way it downloads till after the beta starts.

[hugzzz]

Only question I have is "Who do I have to kiss and take to bed to get on the beta testing??"

[richy99]

Only question I have is "Who do I have to kiss and take to bed to get on the beta testing??"

you need to be in the irc channel and ask dexter nicely

[DThor]

To clarify, it's still in alpha. Once it moves to public beta, registered users get to test it. No kisses required.

DT

[ozzii]

For me..
I can't wait the UNICODE support.....
So I will finally use my Serbian translation on my French system

[rochlin]

My personal least favorite thing about Newsbin 5 and lower is the filtering.
In particular, file size. You must know that DVDs are about 4.5GB or 9GB.
Yet your size filters are hardcoded. 1G, 5G, 10G
If you want DVDs, you would like to filter for a min size of, say 4.1 GB.
Very annoying. You could continue to do pulldowns for fixed sizes if you like, but MAKE THE FIELD EDITABLE so we can type our own max/min sizes. Especially in the fields for ad-hoc min-max filtering at the top of the page.
Thanks.

[BauerFL]

Older version 5 had a feature wherein RAR and PAR files in the Files tab were deleted from the list when RAR Decode was successful and the decoded files had been added to list. This feature made it easier to verify which decodes succeeded and kept the Files list from overrunning as quickly (currently appears to allow slightly less than 4000 entries).

Any chance this feature will be available again? Thanks.

[dexter]

Version 5.58 still works like that. You have to have the option set under Options/AutoPAR Options. It's called "Automatically Delete RARs and PARs on Successful Decode". If there are any errors in the unrar process, the files will not be deleted.

[IdontexistM8]

I would love to see the return of server priority/ordering. It's the only thing I miss from V4.

[dexter]

Server priority/ordering really doesn't apply in the V5 series. You can control the usage of servers by using slave and fill modes, but all servers are otherwise treated equally. In V4, each connection worked on its own file so, it made more sense. In V5, all available connections are allocated to the first file in the list. Version 6 currently works the same way as Version 5 in this respect.

[larft]

It would be great if you guys could make it so that NB uses the system default web browser when opening the MOTD from the popup instead of IE

[x0r]

Tease us with screenshot , anyway i have a feature request, inherited max connection for fill server, a check button with fill-able text box for how many connection taken from mainserver allocation :

Code: Select all

Giganews (Main Server) Max Connection 20
----Astraweb(Fill Server) Max Connection 10


So if i set above, the fill will use max 10 connection and main server connection max will reduce into 10, total 20 for both, if fill server not being used, max 20 connection on main server will used.

Another one, does the loaded NZB will be categorized per NZB-name? i mean like newsleecher.

[DThor]

It would be great if you guys could make it so that NB uses the system default web browser when opening the MOTD from the popup instead of IE

The problem is, Newsbin doesn't ship with an html renderer(if it did, it would probably double or triple the size of the package). In order to draw within the MOTD window, it needs to ask the system to use the default html renderer...which is explorer. Consequent calls from that will again open explorer. To be clear, the issue is that newsbin needs to render an html inside that popup window.

The only solutions to this are to not have a custom popup(open the default html browser, which would likely piss a fair number of users who don't always have a browser open), or research and package in some free html renderer like gecko, although there's always issues here with legalities, cost, the cost to implement and users getting pissed that Newsbin is installing another browser engine.

I don't know for certain if there's anything new in this department(people have been asking this question for years), but that's how I understand it.

DT

[IdontexistM8]

Server priority/ordering really doesn't apply in the V5 series. You can control the usage of servers by using slave and fill modes, but all servers are otherwise treated equally. In V4, each connection worked on its own file so, it made more sense. In V5, all available connections are allocated to the first file in the list. Version 6 currently works the same way as Version 5 in this respect.

I'm not suggesting a fundamental change back to the way Newsbin connects and downloads as Version 5 is clearly an improvement to before, rather a way of ordering which server out of the 'fills' (if you have more than one) it would seek when required. Something along that line would add one more degree of flexibility.

[richy99]

with servers being cheap and unlimited and also the length of retention these days, i dont really see a need for fill servers unless you are using really crappy servers to start with

it woudl be interesting to find out how mayn still use block accounts tho

[DThor]

Well, whatever you do, don't make it a vote since no-one will vote, they'll just post their comments *cough*

DT

[itimpi]

It would be great if you guys could make it so that NB uses the system default web browser when opening the MOTD from the popup instead of IE

The reason that IE is used is that it is the only browser that allows itself to be embedded in an application supplied Window.

[IdontexistM8]

with servers being cheap and unlimited and also the length of retention these days, i dont really see a need for fill servers unless you are using really crappy servers to start with

it woudl be interesting to find out how mayn still use block accounts tho

Have the Tory cuts not hit Wales yet then Richy?

Well like wise I'd be interested to know how many people do just use an unlimited service. Certainly the availability of both block accounts and unlimited now is greater than when I first got the Usenet bug nearly 7 years ago. I seem to remember the only reliable block accounts were Astra and Octanews, now the options are more varied,

Unlimited accounts, even at their cheapest (Astra's $96 deal), are still not that cheap unless you are a compulsive or heavy downloader, a habit I've thankfully grown out of. I probably do 20-30Gb a month on average these days, unlimited is simply not worth it for that. HD content and a bit of fiber at my end might change things down the line, we shall see. . .

What confuses me is why there are people buy those, for example, 20Gb-50Gb a month packages for sizeable prices. Understandable perhaps when you are getting something half useful like Easynews' web interface but for straight up nntp access it's totally baffling.

So anyway I don't know whether for the average user ordering is important or not but I'd use it so. . .

[DThor]

Please don't hijack the thread with an impromptu poll. Besides, hasn't this already been discussed to death about 5 years ago?

DT

[Quade]

Most people have 1 good server and don't bother with fills or block servers.

[IdontexistM8]

Please don't hijack the thread with an impromptu poll. Besides, hasn't this already been discussed to death about 5 years ago?

DT

Most people have 1 good server and don't bother with fills or block servers.

I'm more curious than statisically interested. Suffice to say clearly more people are using, or at the very least aware of, usenet than five years ago, How they are using it and by what means is worthy of some discussion, though in different part of this or some other forum. And indeed probably not between the same half dozen of people as 5 years ago!

My point is that not everyone has unlimited access (especially after the ISPs dumped it) so some additional configurability in 6, though not essential, would be undeniably be a bonus.

[syshog]

Well, if you add them compacted, they download compacted. You can disable decode and leave repair working or disable both. Currently you can't disable download list compaction but, I imagine I could add that easily enough. The scratch list is still there but, it's not used for anything during download. It's just storage now.

Your reasons seem odd to me. Why not just download them to the folder you want and let autopar decode them in place?

If there was a way to configure different file types to download into certain directories I would do that. If autoPar was configurable to extract files in a directory (usually named the same as the archive similar to the context menu of winrar when doing a drag and drop extract) instead of dumping the files the group download directory that would be useful. I really don't need AutoPAR to check every achieve I have, wasting time searching through gigs of files. The only time I even check pars is if there is an extraction problem and in this case the scratch list helps me out.

What I am most concerned about with the next version of Newsbin is faster header loading and improved memory management of the headers. 5.58 was a big boost over 5.57 and 5.56

[Viperz]

I'm looking forward to the new version myself. Not that there's anything wrong with 5.58, I just love to update I must disagree with a few others posting here though. I always use the AutoPar/RAR feature. I too like to organize different files into different locations (separate drives mostly) but this can be done after the program has finished downloading and assembling the files for me. It also clears up some of the clutter of having a few thousand RAR files hanging around. Check your settings under decode path, you can have the files dropped into separate folders created with the downloaded file name.

~ Newshosting - unlimited $12.95/month with 30 SSL connections & 650 days retention - Charter 16Mbit with speedboost to 24Mbit max (recently capped at 100GB/month )

[nemesis.ie]

Would it be possible to add some method where during auto-unrar, if there a single file and .inf (or a couple of the usual files) the download is unpacked into the main folder, but if there is are sub folders, the download is unpacked into a separate folder named for the download?

Likewise, some new folder should be created if a new download set starts unpacking to a file with the same name as a previous unpack.

Thanks!

[x0r]

Most people have 1 good server and don't bother with fills or block servers.

Mostly 'good' old ages post will taken down on us server, sometime i need to use astraweb europe server to get it, not a major problem but just a minor feature request .

[Maxdout38]

****************************************************************************************************************
Please consider when setting up directories to have Artist - Album. (Put spaces in between).
*****************************************************************************************************************
Thank you

Maxdout38

[DThor]

Mostly 'good' old ages post will taken down on us server, sometime i need to use astraweb europe server to get it, not a major problem but just a minor feature request .

Not to worry, there's no plan to remove fill servers at all. That discussion was just getting into an old argument about very specific behaviour with fill servers that harkened back to ancient times. Fills are still there...

DT

[IdontexistM8]

Mostly 'good' old ages post will taken down on us server, sometime i need to use astraweb europe server to get it, not a major problem but just a minor feature request .

Not to worry, there's no plan to remove fill servers at all. That discussion was just getting into an old argument about very specific behaviour with fill servers that harkened back to ancient times. Fills are still there...

DT

One thing that made me curious in leading on from that 'old' argument, is whether the number of connections allocated to each fill server has any relevance in ordering or, more accurately, the degree of filling by one server.

For example, I've approx. 3/4 left of my current 200Gb Usenet-News block but only 5% of my 180Gb Astra, so I'd like to use the Astra leanly for the time being but not to the point of disabling it. So if we're not going back to 'ancient times', is the way to balance multiple fill server usage in V5 / 6 by having the larger block's connections numbers set high and the other one(s) to low?

[DThor]

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting you not discuss this issue, I was suggesting taking it out of this thread.

DT

[Quade]

If there was a way to configure different file types to download into certain directories I would do that.

Not currently. Someone asked for the ability to pattern match and pick download path based on the pattern. I was thinking about doing that.

[IdontexistM8]

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting you not discuss this issue, I was suggesting taking it out of this thread.

DT

My thoughts were based on what was different from 4 to 5, that might be useful (to me at least) in a some sort of different guise in 6. Perhaps if someone started a 'Your one wish for V6' thread then it would be best placed there.

[dexter]

You have the ability to start your own threads in this forum.

[IdontexistM8]

You have the ability to start your own threads in this forum.

Unbeknownst to me when I last replied, Richy has started a 'feature requests' one. However if I feel the urge I may do so.

[peacs]

If there was a way to configure different file types to download into certain directories I would do that.

Not currently. Someone asked for the ability to pattern match and pick download path based on the pattern. I was thinking about doing that.

That (pattern matching to determine path) sounds like a great idea.

(sorry for not saying this in the features thread, but keeping it together.)

[oscardt]

Version 6 is well into Alpha testing with a small group of brave Newsbin users through our IRC channel. It is currently fully functional but has some cleanup work and a couple more features before we will be ready to release as a public beta.

Here's a small preview of what you can expect:

• Improved performance of download/repair/unrar process (clocked at close to 1gbps with SSD drives running a local server)

Thanks!

Does that mean that this behaviour Links not allowed for unregistered users won't happen anymore in v6?

As a side note. I understand that you use an SSD to test the improved performance (to not let the hard drive be the bottleneck). But will the new download method work on regular hard drives?

edit:
I see that I'm not allowed to post images, although they do appear when I press preview. A brief description then: Newsbin downloads with 120 MBit and next to it is windows task manager on networking and you see the line going to zero percent every time a part has to be written to the hard drive.

[Quade]

There's an "in memory" chunk cache which is used while the disk is heavily loaded. It means the download continues even while files are written out. Still, it depends on your disk drive for ultimate performance. The status bar shows chunk cache state. When it gets to zero, that means Newsbin is bottlenecked on the disk writes and can't read any more data off the network. If you have slow disk, USB disk for instance. You're not going to get the good performance on a high speed connection. You can increase the size of the chunk cache but, that just delays the problem. It'll bottleneck on the slowest part of the process. It varies too, depending on the size of the files you're working with. If you're downloading sets that have 500 meg RAR files then you're totally at the mercy of your system's disk IO.

Disk IO of all sorts is more efficient in 6. In a way though that might be like sticking a V8 into a civic. If the underlying system isn't up to the task then it'll help but, not make miracle changes.

Usenet on a high speed connection is a server like load. You'll want server like PC's if you want the fastest downloads. Trying to shoe-horn 200 Mbps download into a laptop with 5400 RPM disk drives is probably still going to be problematic. Better in 6 than in 5 though.

[oscardt]

I'm looking forward to test v6 on my pc. It's not server like but I do have my OS on a separate hard disk (WD re3 500GB) and a dedicated download hard disk (Samsung 750GB, sata).

[Tw4T]

Anychance of getting a test build thats not via IRC?

[dexter]

Anychance of getting a test build thats not via IRC?

I saw you on IRC, you asked me about the alpha then disappeared. That's the only way you are going to get it and you have to lurk for awhile to see how things work there. We aren't going to give it out to people who aren't willing to stick around and provide feedback.

[richy99]

Anychance of getting a test build thats not via IRC?

currently no, when it opens for beta testing to the forums then you will be able to gete a build

IRC is used as we can discuss the problems with the builds quicker and easier, thats why you need to hang around in the channel for a while and get a feel for it

[uBronan]

Well since i installed the newer versions i can not download any headers anymore
It simply does not receive any information even though the program says it is downloading them.....

The server i am at is called : hitnews.eu
Basically downloading binaries itself goes fine
But whatever i try the headers don't appear, no clue why i dont get them

[Quade]

Hitnews is broken. Apparently they reported this on their website. You can only download from then using NZB's or Internet Search inside Newsbin.