AutoNZB issue (Debian + VMWare + XP Pro + NewsBin Pro)

[oldschooljohn]

I am having a really odd issue that has me pulling my hair out as it is the last piece of my dream setup. Here's the setup and what I have tried, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Hardware:

• Dual P3 1.26g
• 1g RAM
• 3x Seagate SCSI Cheetah 10k 36.7GB RAID 5'ed

Software:

• Debian Stable (2.6.x Kernel)
• VMWare Server, the free one
• (Virtual) Windows XP Pro SP2 patched to current
• Newsbin Pro 5.30 Build 7347 Registered

XP VMWare setup: (bear with me a little on this one as I am at work right now and am reciting this off the top of my head but that really shouldn't matter once I explain the issue)

• Networking: Bridged
• IDE0: Local virtual (vmware) disk with the XP install on it ~4 or 5 GB
• IDE1: Local virtual (vmware) disk *just* for my NewsBin install and it's data ~4 or 5GB as well

Now then. I have a file server with a samba share mapped for my NB incoming dir. This is how I used to run when I was running NB on a physical windows box and there was never a problem with this. OK so I can download headers, download posts (to the smb mapped drive) no problem. The problem arises when I throw something in my auto-nzb dir. NewsBin sees it, loads it up in the DL list and puts the nzb in the Loaded dir but nothing happens. The downloads never start. So to try to test everything I could think of here's what I have done.

1. Changed my download dir to one of the "local" disks. Auto NZB works like a champ.
   
2. Made a new VMWare virtual disk on a samba share so the VMWare XP install sees it as a local drive. The host machine (VMWare server) has the smb share mounted and then I told VMWare to make a virtual disk there (I had to chuckle as I was creating this virtual disk just considering how convoluted it is). My assumption was that this would work as the above attempt did as XP just sees this as a local drive (E:, shows up in the disk management etc). Unfortunately that's not the case. Double clicking a post to download it still works fine in this config but auto loading nzb still just stalls.

As you can see I have tried every permutation of disk setups I could think of, I do NOT want to allocate actual physical disk space to the downloads on the physical machine that is running this setup for a plethora of reasons that are beyond the scope of the issue at hand really.

My ultimate goal is to have the VMWare XP start when the machine starts, NB start when XP starts and then from any box on my network I can just drop a .nzb in the auto nzb dir and away we go.

Help... please?

[DThor]

Interesting topic. I'm in the middle of work hell right now, but had you looked at this topic?

That at least discusses getting vmware starting up automatically.

As far as the samba share goes, first thought is that it's not refreshing. I'm not what you would call a samba guru, though...

I'll try to come back when I have more time...

DT

[oldschooljohn]

Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah I read that, just now, and I have no problems so far getting VMWare up and running and the XP install up and running all automatically. (That I know of, shouldn't matter too much this is running on enterprise class hardware with redundant everything (NICs, PSUs etc) on a UPS and I expect uptimes of.... well until I move or bring the box down on purpose.)

It's driving me nuts as EVRYthing is working perfectly other than autonzb when the dl dir is set to anything but a vmware volume on the physical machine. My Samba-fu is pretty good and I am 99% sure it's not really a smb issue per se. When I get home I am going to try a few other versions of NB and see if this is some oddity that has been introduced recently. I mean the fact that I can double click posts and the dl but the auto just stalls is maddening.

Thanks again for the speedy reply and I hope we can get this going cause it's the final piece in my attempt to take over the world!

[DThor]

(running between meetings and computer screens)

You have the MOTD disabled, right? The latest beta will not start downloading if that's up.

DT

[Quade]

As long as it's mapped to a drive letter, it should work. Don't believe UNC names work though I haven't tried it recently.

[oldschooljohn]

(running between meetings and computer screens)

You have the MOTD disabled, right? The latest beta will not start downloading if that's up.

DT

yeah MOTD is disabled and this is while I am running Newsbin manually already. ie I am sitting at the console watching it do it's thing.


Quade:
It is mapped to a drive letter in every case. I am not trying to point anything inside NB to //server/share or anything. Double click downloading works, in fact autonzb even creates the Dir named after the .nzb like I told it to in the NZB options but the files themselves never download. they are on the download list but they just sit there doing nothing.

[Quade]

Doesn't really sound like a download path problem then does it? What's in the status messages tab?

[oldschooljohn]

If I start NB fresh and throw a .nzb in the auto dir? Nada. Even with server status messages turned on.

Edit: To clarify I mean it processes the .nzb as it should, puts everything in the download list and even with verbose status options turned on the status tab is empty. If I have been running for a bit and manually downloading stuff obviously there's the info pertaining to that in the status but on a fresh start, after it processes the .nzb into the DL list, nothing in the status at all.

I am still at work and I was really just posting in case anyone had a "magic bullet" to solve this or had seen it before. I really have no business telling you what is in a tab that's 35 miles away from me atm I will provide more info in an hour or so when I get home.

[oldschooljohn]

OK now that I am home and can actually look at what is going on here is the status output.

Load NB after freshly booting the XP Virtual Machine status is:

Code: Select all

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER


The I throw a .nzb in the auto dir and the posts show up in the DL list and status is:

Code: Select all

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=200 News.GigaNews.Com
09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER

09/20/2006 19:06:29 SERVER=news.giganews.com, MSG=MODE READER


Nothing happens other than them being loaded up in the DL list. If I set autodownload manually loaded .nzbs and pick one, same thing.

(BTW this .nzb was created in NB (hilight posts->right click->create .nzb from posts)

Also, I was wrong in a previous post, it actually does not create the directory named for the .nzb as previously stated. It just sits there. Now if I load the post list for a group and double click a post it downloads fine but the ones from the .nzb are still just sitting there. I have tried Retry Download, Bypass Filters, Assign a new path (nice new feature btw), etc on the autoloaded .nzb posts and still nothing.

On a whim I just installed 4.32 Build 4962 but it doesn't do the autonzb folder thing that I can see. So that's not going to be the solution unless I am missing something.

[Quade]

So, the NZB's work to a local drive but, don't work to this network share. Say you load a group, then "download to folder" to this network share. Does that work?

When you said the folder was being created, I assumed the permissions were correct. Now that it turns out they aren't being created, it sounds like the permissions are wrong.

I have a feeling you're going to find that the problem is glaringly obvious once you figure it out.

[oldschooljohn]

I thought the same thing but I made the share wide open 777 just for shits and giggles and the same thing happened. Yeah "Download to folder..." works fine.

Btw in the current config (as you see in the orig. post I've tried a few ways) windows sees the download dir as F: and thinks it's a local drive. I had to go make the partition in disk mgmt and format it etc.

So strange.

[Quade]

Turns out UNC names do work, at least from "Set new Path". I just made an NZB save to a samba share. The fact it doesn't even start the download's suspect.

I even "Assign to New path" to a CD drive with a CD in it and the download commences. It won't be able to save but, the chunks will download.

Did uncover a bug though. Once it starts looking for free space on a Read-Only drive, it stays there forever. Need to fix that I guess.

[oldschooljohn]

I'll play with it some more but my old config when I was running on an actual windows machine, as opposed to the vmware one, my download dir was always on a samba share I just never pointed it to a UNC type path and that doesn't seem be the issue here. I am to the point of considering setting up and NFS from the vmware host machine to the fileserver and then make the vmware xp volume on that.

I may bite the bullet and write to the local drives that the vmware server is giving space to the XP instal on and then rsyncing to get the data where I want it and off that box. Thing is the limited amount of storage on the RAID on the vmware box is not where I want NB putting anything but itself and it's data path.

That last ditch solution would be to put a spare ide drive in that machine, so it's not eating into my SCSI RAIDed space just for NB which is viable but not ideal by a looong shot. Let me mess with it some more after I eat dinner here and see if I get anywhere.

Thanks for being so cooperative, I have been using NB for a long time now and I love it. I would love to get this worked out and the fact that every other form of download works to the exact path that auto nzb is trying to write to (and I guess I hadn't mentioned that I tried it with the "folders named for nzb" [EDIT](switched on or off)[/EDIT], same thing though) it just leads me to believe that something in the code is choking on this one exact instance.

[oldschooljohn]

Well I am outta ideas for the moment. I have edited my smb.conf to no end tonight and tried every permutation of disk settings, share settings, NB settings, permissions etc. Maybe will try NFS tomorrow just for this and see if it's just some smb anomaly but I doubt it really because...

I just realized I had not mentioned this and it seems quite pertinent.

I can have my way with the autonzb dir in any other app on this VM XP install. Namely word, delphi, and <derail>a bunch of stuff I wrote in delphi to support a consulting gig as the only reason this vmware xp machine existed to begin with was to support them on occasion, newsbin was just a great realization when it dawned on me that I could offload all the heavy lifting of usenet (putting together chunks, auto-rar/par etc) off my workstation without running NB locally via wine</derail>

Anyhow, point being, if it helps you debug anything I wanted to let you know that I can make dirs, files, compile apps, etc on this VM XP just fine and specifically in the download path that is set in NB. Even NB works perfectly... all but this one issue.

Thanks again for all the attention. I know this is a pain, though I am glad you found that little read only stall error as a result. Also IMHO this setup will be really nice for the autonzb setup but also the interface is surprisingly snappy under vmware so I can continue to use it as my usenet browser as well by connecting to the vmware server remotely.

[itimpi]

Just to confuse things eveb further, I have no problems with using NZB autload from a network drive (samba share) when running under VMWare on a windows host. This is using XP Pro or Vista RC1 as clients in the VM.

What version of VMWare is being used? I was using Workstation 5.2. I assume also that the VMWare tools were up-to-dare?

[Quade]

I don't actually believe this is a Newsbin problem so, there's nothing for me to really look at.

[Hoooooooostun] CF Wednesday, August 9, 2006 [2/9] - "2006-08-09-<stuff> (JB-64kCF).mp3" yEnc ,\\192.168.0.101\video\Incomplete\<nzb name>\<some group>\, 2.2 / 113.9 MB [262],None,8/9/2006 13:41

Autoloaded NZB, downloading to a UNC named samba share.


I went even further.

Autoload folder is now:
\\me-desktop\home\

Download path is:
\\192.168.0.101\video\Incomplete\

I exported an NZB from Newsbin, to "home". Newsbin picked up the NZB and is now saving the files to "Incomplete".

[oldschooljohn]

Quade,

With all due respect...

As far as the UNC thing, that's dandy and probably a function of the OS to translate the path behind the scenes and I have been setting my download path to a samba share for ~3 years now as it is.

To reiterate from what I said a couple posts back, autonzb is the ONLY thing that is failing on this mapped drive (or whatever it is at this point, so convoluted it even takes me a minute to digest the path it's taking to this share) NB AutoNZB is the ONLY thing that I cannot get working on this box. Does that not set off some sort of red flag for anyone but me???

I am going to hammer away at it even more tonight and all probably all weekend because it would make me sick to stop using NB but if I can't solve it, and I'm no dummy when it comes to these things, it will be a sad, sad day. This VMWare XP is the only Windows machine left in my house other than my work laptop so I suppose it's gonna be a tearful goodbye to newsbin and a timid hello to PAN + HellaNZB or whatever us linux kids are using these days for similar functionality.

[itimpi]

You sure my earlier comment that I had no problems doing what you wanted under VMWare on my machine?

What type of networking setup do you use? I normally set my VM's up to use NAT networking.

[oldschooljohn]

You sure my earlier comment that I had no problems doing what you wanted under VMWare on my machine?

What type of networking setup do you use? I normally set my VM's up to use NAT networking.

Nah but I do appreciate the input. I couldn't tell you this sec what version as I am at work but it's running on Debian stable and it's whatever the latest free VMWare server is. VMWare tools are on the XP install and up to date etc.

Networking? Off the top of my head it's bridged but I could be wrong. It gets it's own (static) IP if that tells you anything and I need it to remain that way.

Guys listen. EVERYTHING I want to do on this VM XP "just works" other than this one NB thing. Even everything else in NB works. Think about it. Does it really, honestly sound like the VM XP is set up wrong somehow? And I am really asking, not trying to be a jerk but I feel like I keep pointing this out and it's not getting through to anyone.

[itimpi]

It does sound to me like it could be a VMWare specific thing to be honest. You are using the VMWare server product while I am using the VMWare workstation one - and we get different results.

[oldschooljohn]

No offense but I don't buy it. I don't rule it out 100% but I don't buy it. I can do anything I want on that VM XP other than this one single thing.

That said, and being that life without NB would suck for me, I will probably spend every waking hour this weekend fiddling with it before considering throwing in the towel.

[DThor]

Could be that, I know I've never gotten the free version of VMWare working as well as my workstation cut. Issues kept cropping up. Also could be some sort of caching issue with Samba(which I'm still leaning towards). After all, if NB isn't acting on a file in a location, then that tells me whatever is supposed to be telling NB there's a file there is busted. Quade's tested a fresh samba share and it works for him, so that tells me it's something apart from Newsbin.

It's not about not getting through to anyone. I think the reverse is true - I think some assumptions you're making about what could be causing it are keeping you from hunting things down. If it were a trivial, obvious thing, this thread wouldn't exist. People are just throwing out ideas.

Btw, it doesn't make sense to be using Pan, etc. when NB works just fine under wine. I use it every day. Some minor GUI glitches but very usable. I thought the whole point of the exercise was to unload this to XP? If you run into a dead end, I'd just fire up wine...

DT

[richy99]

No offense but I don't buy it. I don't rule it out 100% but I don't buy it. I can do anything I want on that VM XP other than this one single thing.

That said, and being that life without NB would suck for me, I will probably spend every waking hour this weekend fiddling with it before considering throwing in the towel.

this is maybe why i dont dual boot linux and use nbp under a virtual environment, there are so many different configs and variables, but i think if x amount have it working and x amount do not then it is a config issue with either the virtual environment or the system

several are not having issues, you are, what is different on your system ? this is the question

[oldschooljohn]

Also could be some sort of caching issue with Samba (which I'm still leaning towards). After all, if NB isn't acting on a file in a location, then that tells me whatever is supposed to be telling NB there's a file there is busted. Quade's tested a fresh samba share and it works for him, so that tells me it's something apart from Newsbin.

I am not ruling out samba issues though last night I fiddled with my smb.conf til like 4 AM to no avail. Tonight or tomorrow night I am going to try an NFS share to see if it is indeed an smb issue. I'm not sure but Quade testing the whole fresh smb share UNC path settings, while appreciated, unless it's over this wacky vmware setup I am trying it on really doesn't prove much. Like I have said I have been using NB over smb for years now in a 100% windows environment without a hitch.

It's not about not getting through to anyone. I think the reverse is true - I think some assumptions you're making about what could be causing it are keeping you from hunting things down. If it were a trivial, obvious thing, this thread wouldn't exist. People are just throwing out ideas.

I don't want to be misunderstood here. I appreciate every last suggestion you all have made and I am not trying to be difficult. I *so* appreciate the time you all are taking to brainstorm this one but let's be realistic here. 1 function of 1 app is not working in an environment where everything else, including NB and every other I throw at work flawlessly. Logic points to a bugaboo in that one feature of that one app does it not? I'm not trying to be a hardhead and say "but, but, but you all are not listening to me" even though that's basically what it looks like but you don't know the painstaking and methodical work I have put into this. I am trying other folks' suggestions. I am not changing a bunch of settings willy-nilly just hoping "something" will stick.

Btw, it doesn't make sense to be using Pan, etc. when NB works just fine under wine. I use it every day. Some minor GUI glitches but very usable. I thought the whole point of the exercise was to unload this to XP? If you run into a dead end, I'd just fire up wine...
DT

I'll tell you what. My desktop workstation was the last windows box in my house for 2 reasons #1 was Delphi and Word as I have consulting clients that need a fix or support every now and again. I have an XP notebook from my current employer so I was going to just start using that for the Delphi stuff. Newsbin was my final holdout to getting Windows the heck out of this house and... </ramble>

I dunno. I will try wine I guess or the NFS share. I am beating my head against the wall with this one and I really don't want to seem like some sort of asshat with a sense of entitlement for Quade, DT, et. al to help me diagnose an unsupported method of using NB. I'm just real frustrated as this is the single thing that is not working on the entire VM XP install. I'm going to try NFS first, then drink^H^H^H^H^H try wine.... Thanks again for everyone's input. Sincerely. I really do appreciate it and this has been an interesting thread. If anyone has any other ideas please feel free to throw them in, I will watch this thread but I am gonna bite the bullet and go another route by Saturday or Sunday I think. Seriously though guys, thanks.

[Quade]

What I proved to myself is there's nothing wrong with Newsbin. That's my primary concern. That you can't make this work is regretable but, it's such a 1% situation it's unlikely to affect many people.

There's a bunch of different things I'd try that, I don't think you have. For example you say it works fine everywhere but, autoload and download to the share, well, I'd autoload with the download path assigned to a local drive then, try re-directing it to the share and see what happens. What happens when you set the download path to the share and do normal downloads? If that works then the problem has nothing to do with the share at all.

I'd be looking at the NZB itself. I did suggest trying other NZB's early on.

Maybe try "FileMon" and see what the OS is seeing when Newsbin accesses the drives. You know, newsbin expects the download path to be case independent like all windows filesystems.

[oldschooljohn]

What I proved to myself is there's nothing wrong with Newsbin. That's my primary concern.

As was mine as you can see by my posts, Newsbin was literally the only thing keeping me from running linux on my destop. Being able to run newsbin just happens to be be one of my primary concerns ( in life ). Really.

That you can't make this work is regretable but, it's such a 1% situation it's unlikely to affect many people.

And this has been my feeling as well. I mantioned a post or two back how impressed and appreciative I was to you guys giving this such quick attention. To have the Dev(s?) helping me almost real-time to fix some sorta convoluted, unsupported in so many ways that I am impressed with how much you have put into it.

There's a bunch of different things I'd try that, I don't think you have. For example you say it works fine everywhere but, autoload and download to the share, well, I'd autoload with the download path assigned to a local drive then, try re-directing it to the share and see what happens. What happens when you set the download path to the share and do normal downloads? If that works then the problem has nothing to do with the share at all.

I actually did all of those things, documented in this thread, and they all did work. Download to Folder... worked. Double Click to download, worked. Setting the download folder to a vmware volume that was local to the vmwareserver worked. setting it to a smb share on the local machine, worked. and by worked I mean autonzb uncluded. The single instance that was failing happened to be the single instance I neeed for this config and that was autonzb trying to write to a smb share or a vmware volume mounted as over a smb share. I t was the one thing stopping me and made zero sense. Permissions were ser every which way etc.t
Btw I was on the path of slowly moving to wine if NFS didn't solve it. I just really want it set up this way isolated sorta from the rest of the machine that is running actual vmware server.

I'd be looking at the NZB itself. I did suggest trying other NZB's early on.
Maybe try "FileMon" and see what the OS is seeing when Newsbin accesses the drives. You know, newsbin expects the download path to be case independent like all windows filesystems.

I finally did find a nzb that would download and compared it with one created by NBP I tinkered with it a bit but could not see what the problem was. Some sort of process/handle/file/i/o spy was next on the list as well to see exactly where it was choking.

All that said... Last night for after ~6 hrs dicking around with smb.conf, amongst other stuff on these various machines trying to get this working, I broke the smb share. I was too tired and said whatever I will deal with this tomorrow. None the machines have not been rebooted at this point (even the VM XP appliance or w/e they call 'em). So I come home ffom work, install NBP in wine and get to the point where I need to two MS .dlls. Flip to vmware to boot up xp and grab these files and notice that i never downed it it's still running. Of course NBP is on the screen so I try one... more... time.... and guess what? Works.

WTF voodoo I tell you.

Now I will backup and start whittling my smb.conf down to where I want it as the permisions on that particular share are a "bit lax" shall we say. When I fially figure out what broek it to begin with I will let you know for the few folks who may need a config like this. It is a very nice setup and is screaming along nicely now and for the record it is writing to the actual smb share not the [i]captian-extra-layer-of-stuff-to-go-wrong vmware virtual disk mounted on a smb share to the vmwareserver's actual filesystem. (you do realise if that had worked and I would have had to make a windows share of that virtual drive and share it back out to my stinkin' network where I needed it to be to begin with. )

Thanks again for the help, for NBP and I will update this thread when I figure out what exactly went wrong.

[Smite]

Glad to hear you got it working, and I'm sure any others that run into similar problems in the future will be gratefull for all the work you've put into this.

[oldschooljohn]

Thanks for the psoitive words and I will continue to try to see what exaclty broke it. I'll be watching this thread in the mean time so... yeah.

[DThor]

There's one reality that few out there would disagree with: samba's a bitch.

I still think it's amazing that they reverse-engineered windows network to such a degree and it's so stunningly useful in a corporate environment, but everytime I've *relied* on it, I got headaches for a while until it started working, then I'd back everything up and never touch it again. My short term solution was to ban windows from our local network.

DT

[oldschooljohn]

I agree 1000% that smb is such a bitch, and deceivingly easy to get up and going, but get ready to bash you head against the walll for and eternity if not longer.
Like you, I have just gotten smb to it's working state many times and then left it the hell alone for... ever ususally.

Cany anyone speak on whether NSF for newtworking the *nix boxes in this mix would be better/worse earier/harder. I get such mixed answers it's like a holy war. I have never installed it, let alone admined it. It's one of those old scary sounding holdovers from my earliy unix days (ooooo SendMail.... scary) etc. I only need smb in this house to talk to my xp notebook, 2 xmbx xboxes and the xp vm. A m currently using smb for all ym remote mounting needs atm and, like I said, I start holy wars when I ask my friends. LEt me now start one here or derail this thread too much but is it feasible / good idea to nix smb where its not needed and go oldschool? (NFS)

-J

[DThor]

I've never seen any holy wars over NFS - it's a stable workhorse that we use, in massive amounts, every day. It's great. There's only three issues I've run into:

1. Windows doesn't ship with it(AFAIK it's always a 3rd party pay solution if you want reliability).

2. Sometimes getting different platforms like BSD, OSX and Linux playing together results in issues(OK, I lied, with the religiously-minded BSD crowd you *do* get holy wars. God I wish they'd get a life.)

3. Assume zero security. It's only useful behind a firewall.

DT

[oldschooljohn]

I've never seen any holy wars over NFS - it's a stable workhorse that we use, in massive amounts, every day. It's great. There's only three issues I've run into:

Well I suppose holy war was a bit drastic. I have just personally debated the issue with several people who happen to (think they) know what they are talking about

1. Windows doesn't ship with it(AFAIK it's always a 3rd party pay solution if you want reliability).

I don't need it for Windows to see the NFS Share, just the host VMWare Machine for the way I was going to set it up.

2. Sometimes getting different platforms like BSD, OSX and Linux playing together results in issues(OK, I lied, with the religiously-minded BSD crowd you *do* get holy wars. God I wish they'd get a life.)

Debian< - >Debian so that should b a non issue although stable < - > testing may be another issue but I (want to) doubt that.

3. Assume zero security. It's only useful behind a firewall.

DT

Not a problem would just be local anyway but good tip for sure.

I never got any time this weekend to play with smb more to see what really broke it but I will keep, now trying, to break it and update the thread.

Thanks for the info DT if NFS goes right up, does what I want it to do and takes any less tinkering with than the smBeast I may go this route still.